#386 — A Letter to a Reader and a Question About Government
[NOTE: all comments on this blog have to be vetted to keep frequent spam and hate attacks away from it. In a couple of days I leave the country for just over a week and won't be able to approve any comments. Go ahead and make them. I will approve them when I get back around February 24th...unless, of course, they violate the rules...]
Before we get to the question for today, I need to address a single reader. I don’t know who you are, but I always assumed you’d show up. As my friends know, I was raised in a very conservative branch of the Church of Christ. The legalism in that branch was a huge burden to bear and my own family was an example of that as one sister after another broke away. One would turn to drugs and those drugs would eventually kill her. Another ran away and married (happily, it seems) and attends a Baptist church which means, she is told by my father, that she is now lost. Another went through a divorce and is just now finding her way back to a Christian community. My mother’s parents were devout Methodists and my father has made it a point to explain to her that they are both lost in hell for eternity. He does not do this out of spite but out of faith – he truly believes what he teaches. Every. Single. Word. I admire that about him, but I disagree with him.
I was the last child who made it a point to get to my parents and take care of them, watch over them, and show them love. On some level, they knew I didn’t teach the same thing I’d been taught growing up but we didn’t speak of it. When he said something I disagreed with, I didn’t try to correct or fix him. I showed him respect and love.
But one of the readers of this blog decided that wasn’t acceptable. They picked and chose some blogs that showed I’d moved on from traditional CoC teaching and they sent those to my parents to rub their nose in it. My father was backed into a corner and his faith allowed him no room to maneuver. He disowned me last week. I am not to contact them again. They are in their 80s, unwell, and isolated and now they refuse to let me near them.
Reader, you might think you did the world a favor and that you proved your faithfulness, but that is untrue. Your arrogance and self righteousness might not allow anything I write here to sink in but the fact is you are a heretic. A heretic – using the Biblical definition – was not a person who had this or that doctrine wrong. No, it was a divisive person. They live to divide churches, families, and communities. God told us not to even associate with a person like that.
In case you think I am arrogant and self righteous, I invite you to read from the beginning of Tentpegs and you will see that I openly change my mind, I continue to learn, and I apologize for the times (multiple) that I was wrong.
I am just trying to speak and write what I see as truth and I usually wait to write until I’ve listened, interviewed, read, studied, and prayed. Even after all of that, I am often wrong. But I am saved for it is not perfection in doctrine or association that saves us, but the grace of God given to us in Jesus, the Christ.
You might feel good right now but this 56 year old – metaphysically orphaned last week – hurts for you. For you see, I will dance with my father in heaven. He will finally tell me that he is proud of me and that I did a good job with my life (something he just has never been able to do so far). And we will not be separated there despite your best efforts. I am not sure what kind of heart you have to have to do what you did, but I forgive you. I imagine it isn’t pleasant being you and I’m sorry about that. I wish you well.
Now… the question for the day…
I’d appreciate your thoughts on Romans 13:1-6 and Titus 3:1-2. If we read this literally, without exception, it would seem that we are forced into difficult conclusions. Did God put Hitler in power? How about Stalin? Pol Pot? Mao Tse Tung? There are myriad other evil rulers, including those who persecuted, tortured, and murdered Christians in Paul’s time. I realize it’s common to think of the most extreme examples when asking a question of this sort, and I don’t think we are facing that sort of evil in this country. But our own government does not have bloodless hands. Trail of Tears, anyone? Does God raise up evil men? I know that God used the Assyrians to punish Israel, and the Assyrians basically made a wasteland of the nations they conquered.
How do these scriptures apply to us, especially in a democratically-elected government, one that is supposedly founded on the rule of law? How do these passages fit in with Jesus calling Satan “The Prince of This World” and Satan offering the rule of the world to Jesus? These passages are in my thoughts now, especially as it seems our own government is roaming farther and farther from the Constitution. In addition, it seems as if the responsibility to protect the innocent could conflict with the passages above. How do we resolve this? Can we resolve this?
Philip H. Towner, dean of the Nida Institute for Biblical Scholarship of the American Bible Society, says that Titus (and Timothy 2) refer to “household codes” known and taught among Jewish families for centuries and, in other forms, taught among many non-Roman cultures. Jews had to learn how to live as outsiders – even as despised outsiders – for centuries. They used these household codes as a way to remind each other how to behave so as to be honorable and to call down as little official attention (almost entirely negative) on them. He says that Titus 3:1-2 is a typical construct of these household codes and says this “calls for Christians to participate in this level of the social structure (as far as possible) according to society’s rules.” (parentheses in original)
In some sense, this is similar to statements we find in the Old Testament about the reputation of God. Moses was concerned that should God kill the Israelites and raise up a new people through him, God’s reputation would be diminished among other nations. Israelites were sometimes told to do this or not do that in order that God’s name not be maligned or slandered. The Titus and Romans passages are there to remind us to be good citizens insofar as we can and still hold to our faith and practice.
The obedience mentioned in Romans seems to be regarding paying taxes and praying for the rulers. Towner says “Subjection to the state – that is, adherence to and recognition of this institution – means obeying the rules. As foreigners, subjects of the kingdom of heaven on a pilgrimage through this world, we are to go about doing good (Romans 13:3; 1 Pet.2:15) and be socially responsible (see also 1 Tim. 2:18-15; 5:1,2, 9-14; 6:1,2). In the case of Titus, he was working among the people of Crete who had a nearly universally bad reputation. They were to do more than believe in Jesus as the Messiah; they were to live as good people and good citizens.
While we believe that Jesus is our Lord and that God is our King, we are not given the right to give the finger to earthly authorities and shout “you have no power over me!”
Grant Osborne – professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School – reminds us that Nero was on the throne when Paul wrote Romans 13. At this point in history, Nero had not yet gone entirely crazy but he was certainly less just than any government those of us in the West have ever experienced. And Paul still calls on us to submit. Note that Paul never spoke against the government’s right to jail him (but he did mention when local governments had no right to beat or jail him without trial) and he wrote no screed against Rome – at least as far as we or the early church can determine. Some Christians and Jews had already been persecuted by this time – Claudius expelled them in 49AD after they rioted – and Paul is warning Christians not to engage in that kind of behavior. As Jesus taught us, give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.
So I pay my taxes even though I know some of them will be used for purposes that I believe are wrong – even evil. Am I participating in that evil by paying my taxes? No, I am being a citizen. I am responsible for my behavior and God will judge the rulers who use the money for evil purposes and those who support them. I am not the Judge and cannot make this earth the throne room of heaven. Submission is a Christian trait, repeated throughout the New Testament.
As for Hitler and Pol Pot and current day dictators, I understand the questioner’s angst. However, even the beast in Revelation was given his authority by God (Revelation 13:5-7). Some look at this passage and say God has ordained the concept of human governments but the language seems – to me and a lot of others – to indicate certain people as specific individuals are brought to power at certain times by the hand of God. Paul calls on us to be passive before these authorities – note Romans 13:10 “If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go.”
However… how passive are we to be? The fact is that throughout the Old Testament there were evil rulers and we see that continuing in the New Testament. I believe that we are allowed to unleash our prophetic voices against evil in government but we are not allowed to revolt. I know this is a touchy subject in nations such as the USA where revolts gave birth to the nation and became a huge part of its proud history. Still, I wonder about those who – even while part of a believing community – call for preparing for armed resistance against an evil government. Would you really shoot down a policeman? A young man from Alabama or Idaho who is wearing the uniform of the National Guard? I cannot find any warrant for that in scripture.
And if were ordered to serve as a guard on another Trail of Tears or as maintenance man on the gas chambers at Auschwitz I am to refuse politely and suffer the consequences honorably.
Rulers will be held accountable for their actions. If we believe this, and if we believe in life eternal, and if we believe that we need not “love our lives so much” as to avoid death or persecution it will be easier for us to swallow this hard teaching. If God’s servant (government) fails in its duty, God will judge it, not us. We will participate as much as we can in our society and we will behave in such a way as to never allow our God to be slandered or give government an excuse to come after us.
And if it does? Paul said he was ready to be offered. Peter did not pull his sword when he was taken to Rome. They trusted in the Teller of our Story, that He would make the end of the story ring with victory for believers. Revelation is all about that. We need to accept the reality in which we find ourselves: we live in a fallen world ruled by fallen people. They may be appointed by God, but they are still fallen. We pray for them and accord them appropriate respect, but we do not compromise our faith even if ordered to do so. Should our faith lead to our persecution, imprisonment, or death we trust in our God to make it all good in the end. And we trust in God to be the Judge – the only qualified Judge – of rulers and nations.
[NOTE: all comments on this blog have to be vetted to keep frequent spam and hate attacks away from it. In a couple of days I leave the country for just over a week and won't be able to approve any comments. Go ahead and make them. I will approve them when I get back around February 24th...unless, of course, they violate the rules...]
February 12th, 2013 at 8:25 pm
I am sorry for the temporary loss of relationship with your parents. The Text is clear regarding divisive people. Unfortunately, I doubt these folks who have so harmed your parents and yourself will understand their actions as divisive. Your response, however was measured and appropriate.
Your response to “the question” above is thoughtful and on the mark. I have had those same thoughts over the last six months and have not been able to express them as eloquently. Thank you for writing what I was thinking and feeling.
Enjoy your rest.
February 12th, 2013 at 8:42 pm
Patrick, I grieve with you over the separation from your father and mother. I can say no more right now.
Thanks for this blog, for this post especially, but for the blog in general. I fully believe that you are helping many, many people with this. I am deeply sorry that it has been an instrument of pain to you.
I cannot imagine shooting down a policeman or a National Guardsman. But some are willing to go that far. This is part of the reason I still strongly support the right of citizens to maintain military-style weapons. The sheer number of arms in the hands of citizens makes it much less likely that the government will force the issue violently.
Again, thank you, Patrick. You and Kami, and your parents are in my prayers.
February 12th, 2013 at 8:58 pm
I am so sorry to hear someone attacked your relationship with your parents and they felt compelled to separate from you. That has to be very painful to endure. I am thankful for your example of forgiveness to the person who did it. The question is one I asked another preacher just today in response to a post discussing this same thing. This must be something God is wanting us to think about. I have further application questions specific to our government in the US because we have been given a say in our government. Is it wrong to bring attention to the issues of our society where we have a say with our votes, like abortion, or should we let the chips fall where they may, and be quiet and mind our own business? Is it wrong to bring attention to a representative that is supportive of Godly values and if possible take on a leadership role ourselves? Should we bring attention to those that are not supportive of Godly values? Is it wrong to protect our rights through means of writing and protesting peacefully and encouraging others to do the same? Is it wrong to value the second amendment as a deterrent to government tyranny and to have weapons and ammo backing that value?
February 12th, 2013 at 9:03 pm
Patrick, I had to stop and pray for you and the person who did this thing before I could finish your blog. I am so sorry to hear what you are going through and the pain it must bring.
I have often wondered about this subject as it relates to public office and speaking out as a follower of Christ. As always you have been able to pack a lot of sound advice into a short blog.
Thank you for keeping this up as it has benefited me greatly. I am so sorry that it has cost you a relationship with your father in this life. I pray that this relationship will be mended.
February 12th, 2013 at 9:14 pm
Patrick, your wisdom, comments have made me such a better person, a better Christian, just a better seeker of truth, plain and simple. I am deeply saddened that someone has hurt you in the manner they have. Bless you.
February 12th, 2013 at 9:40 pm
Patrick,
My heart is so heavy and sad for you. I pray your parents will find room for you in there hearts. I too was raised in the very conservative CoC by my loving granny. She believed the HARD LINE was the truth and taught it with love. I however, seaching for many years have lightened my “hard” views. I believe as you, the I am saved through the blood of Christ, and nothing I have done myself. I just lost my mother 10 days ago, and am comforted she is with the Father and my granny. Our God is big and his love is bigger. Your words and humor comfort me on a regular basis.
Keep going where the spirit leads you and God bless.
Jaci Jones
Cincinnati, OH
February 12th, 2013 at 9:42 pm
My thoughts and prayers are with your parents and you concerning this separation sparked by the unkindness of a third person. The Lord will indeed reunite y’all, if not in this life, then in eternity. The person clearly has not received or experienced the grace and mercy our Lord offers to each of us. May this person’s heart be opened to receive the truth of God’s love!
February 12th, 2013 at 9:44 pm
As I am reading this post, I am reminded of Ephesians 6:13: Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, TO STAND. You have done everything your faith has led you to do. And, now you stand. But for this disrepectful person, I offer Daniel 4: 37b: And those who walk in pride he is able to humble. This “unknown” may feel pride that he/she has done the right thing. But have you? Hmmm. Patrick, thank you for being my faith hero. Thank you for showing me how to stand in the midst of chaos. Thank you for strengthening my faith. Praying for you and your family
February 12th, 2013 at 9:57 pm
“Seven things the Lord hates…he who sows discord…” is the scripture that came to mind. I’m so sorry. I don’t always agree with you…I am more conservative, but there is a point at which it is my job to be quiet and listen to what the Scriptures say…to realize that there are many things that are opinion to some, although they may be conviction to me. Your writings often give me something to ponder…God bless you…and I’ll be praying for the relationship to be restored.
February 12th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
Patrick,
May God have mercy on the person who has caused this rift between you and your daddy. I pray that it will be short-lived, but if not, I know that heaven will be even sweeter for you and for him and your mom. I am also sure that God is hurting with you.
Blessings to all of your family,
Nancy
February 12th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
I am sorry for your pain Patrick. I appreciate the honesty, candor, and thought you give to each answer. It takes courage to put tough answers to tough questions on the web for everyone to peruse and use as will. I am sorry that one has not chosen to handle their disagreements as a Christian but has resorted to slander and malice. I too pray they will repent, I pray that you will have courage to keep posting your thoughts though challenging they may be. We don’t always agree, but you always make me think about the subject, make me proud of the effort you give, and make me proud you’re my brother in Christ. Have a great vacation…make it an annual habit at least. (Also, thank your wife, these things are tough on them as well.)
February 12th, 2013 at 10:40 pm
Patrick, my heart is so heavy with the sadness you are going through. God be with you, your father and your mother, and bless each of you as He knows your needs, and may He give you comfort in this “temporary” loss. Yes, you will be together someday, and I pity the one who has caused this division.
February 12th, 2013 at 10:55 pm
Patrick,
When you told me this on Sunday my heart hurt for you. Now, reading the “rest of the story” I am having to pray that I be as compassionate as you to the perpetrator and not angry. I cannot fathom someone thinking that God would be pleased with what they have done or that causing this kind of pain is what they must do to please God. I pray that God will speak to the heart of your parents and that you will see an earthly reunion before you have a heavenly one. Thank you for the example you are of authentic faith and transparency. Those of us that know you may not agree with everything you believe, but we would never question your love for the Lord or His Word.
February 12th, 2013 at 11:01 pm
Hey brother, I can emphathize with you. Same history, same level of past restored cordial relationship with dad fr which I am very grateful, as long as we don’t talk ‘religion’, yet ever wondering at what point it could end up again as you tragically described. So sad, so senseless and so divisive on the part of some brethren blinded by the slavery of legalism. It is with the very grace that so many conservatives dismiss that God will restore you to your parent’s after this chapter in the story is ended. Right now, God is merely letting the situation develop and groan until that resurrection day when all things will be made new. I appreciate you Patrick! Continue to trust in God’s power and peace as you are a vessel of living water and savory bread to a parched and hungry world both within and without our tribe…Spot on with the answering of the other question
February 12th, 2013 at 11:05 pm
I grieve with/for you. I will not write more. Only look for the “Like” button on Garrett Davis’ comment.
February 12th, 2013 at 11:05 pm
Saddened by the self-righteousness of this person who brought division between your parents and you. Your attitude toward that person is more gracious than mine would be.
Re: Rom.13 text, for what it’s worth. I’ve thought of this in terms of God reserving the right (sovereignty) to raise up and take down leaders as He so desires, but never the idea that every person in national leadership is there because of Divine placement. In our form of government, we bring these idiots upon ourselves … again and again and again. No need to bring God into the mess!
February 13th, 2013 at 2:45 am
I was thinking kind of along those lines, too, Greg.
February 12th, 2013 at 11:47 pm
Patrick, I am so very sorry that one of our brethren felt the need to contact your parents. You and your parents, as well as the divisive brother, are in my thoughts and prayers. I am looking forward to seeing you at the Tulsa Soul Winning Workshop! Safe travels!
February 13th, 2013 at 12:00 am
Dear Brother with the beautiful feet. We were also raised in the 30s, 40s, and 50s in the legal South. Understanding, as our Big Brother, we wept, but there will have no tears.
February 13th, 2013 at 12:23 am
I will pray for you and I will pray for your divisive reader. I will pray for Miss Kami, your children, your church family and your father. It isn’t much, and it would be more effectual if it came from a righteous person, but it is all I can do and all I can offer.
What I feel in this matter is not suitable for public disclosure. So this prayer is also to benefit me: to open my heart in love rather than anger and bitterness.
February 13th, 2013 at 1:22 am
Hello Patrick , I pray your situation works itself out with God’s Help , I feel sorry for those so legalisticly bound up they cannot possibly have joy in their hearts under the salvation Christ provides out of Love , I grew up in a anti bible ex Church of Christ stepfather household , lots of drinking an I learned it well , now is a different story ,My stepfather finaly got it But it took years of rebelion for him to realize God Loved him Same as anyone else ,he mostly got over the legalistic thing ,his church baptized him 3 times because they couldnt get his Leg in the water(cast) the 2nd time because it didnt take the first time (figure that one out) . but its how they were taught ,Will be Praying for you ,t T bar K Custom Knives
February 13th, 2013 at 2:39 am
Oh, Patrick –
I was so shocked & grieved by what this person did to your physically weak, needy, elderly parents & to you that I could not breathe. I try very hard to be a woman of grace in all my ways, but in this instance – particularly because I know of your deep love and devotion to your parents, who need you so much in these declining years of their lives – I find myself at a loss in being as forgiving as you, my dear friend.
So, I must pray about that for myself, while at the same time praying that there be SOMEONE who is able to keep in contact with your mom & dad, so that you may know about their welfare. I pray even more, that someone will talk with them on your behalf to pave the way to a much needed reconciliation.
As for your life & your work – I know you know how I feel about that. I cannot add any more to what has already been said here by the other commenters. So, I will continue to raise you up before our Father in all you do.
I pray you & Miss Kami will have a delightful vacation with all (okay – most) cares & worries left behind. We shall be here to greet you on your return!
May God richly bless your parents and bring them once again into fellowship with you.
I pray all these things & more in the Name of our Blessed Lord Jesus. Amen
Dee
February 13th, 2013 at 2:39 am
No wonder more than a few of us no longer attend/associate exclusively with the CofC.
Hesed,
Randall
February 13th, 2013 at 2:43 am
We all will give an account one day for everything careless word spoken – “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:33-37 Interesting how we will take one verse and make it say something it doesn’t and judge people but the words that are spoken over and over again we don’t pay attention to – like if you don’t love your brother then the love God is not in you or how every other page of the Bible is telling of God’s love or how we are to love – and yet we never hold people accountable to that first – I think Jesus referred to it as being like a “white washed tomb” – thanks for sharing Patrick – I think there are many out there who can relate to losing close relationships due to their love for God – and like you said – nothing can separate you or will separate you once we make it to our home in heaven – Romans 8 also promises us this! Take care and Blessings Always!
February 13th, 2013 at 2:51 am
Jesus wept. John 11:35
February 13th, 2013 at 3:35 am
My heart is broken for you. We will pray. From the bottom of my heart I empathize with you.
February 13th, 2013 at 4:01 am
While I have my own opinions on the subject of respectful submission versus being oppressively subjugated – these are some excellent view points, and are very challenging to my beliefs, which I love. I feel that my faith is lost when I stop questioning it, challenging it, and changing where necessary.
February 13th, 2013 at 5:18 am
Patrick, I must confess to you and my fellow readers that I am not their equal when it comes to the level of graciousness that they have expressed to the offender in this case, though I am genuinely in awe of you all and eternally thankful for God’s capacity for undeserved grace. Does it make me less of a Christian to feel compelled to demand of the one who would willfully and intentionally engage in this behavior that he/she should stand up and defend his or her actions, and if no Godly defense can be offered, then to tell that person that they need to confess and repent of their sin? Other readers have so capably demonstrated through scripture that God hates such divisive behavior. Neither the ends nor the means are defensible before the Lord and these are most certainly not the behaviors we associate with Christ and we can find no scripture that would suggest Christ would engage in, associate Himself with, or condone this type of divisive behavior. Quite the opposite is true; therefore, I encourage this person to most earnestly consider who they are working for if it is not Christ?
Patrick, thank you for the discussion about government. It is an issue I wrestle with as a Christian and as a member of a representative democracy that purports to encourage citizen ownership, participation and involvement in government, community and country. There is a dual role here that causes me much internal debate about how we honorably and credibly engage in both.
February 13th, 2013 at 5:27 am
I am sorry for what happened. I like what someone said once about the old people in the hardline COC who are fearful of Hell if someone does not get every jot and tittle of doctrine right: “They’re that much closer to finding out they were wrong.” I know you will be reunited with your parents in Heaven. I am sorry that the culture and mindset of the COC is so much pro-ratting-out. I wonder if that song “Going afar” is to blame. In that song, the human is going to find lost sheep instead of Jesus going to find the lost sheep. I think. I don’t know where this “it’s my duty to tell their parents” mindset came from, but I think there is a viewpoint in the COC that your parents have authority over you until they die. No one comes out and says that, but they live like it. If they’d preach what they believe, that “we have a responsibility to rat everyone out to their parents, no matter what age,” and “Parents have authority over their adult children till death,” then you’d have had warning. But they don’t come out and say that’s what they believe. But that seems to be what they do believe. At least Gothardites come out and spell it out that they believe parents have authority over adult children until death.
February 13th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
Patrick: Laurie and I are praying for you. We pray for reconciliation with your parents.
February 13th, 2013 at 3:54 pm
Heartbroken for you and your family. I have wondered at (and been awed by) the openness of your posts, and have wondered whether somehow the evil one might use that against you. I thank you that this has not caused you to hold back — your teaching is a frequent blessing to me. I pray God’s comfort for you, that His grace would grow in your father sooner rather than later. I pray awakening and repentance for the one who took it upon himself to cause this division. And I pray continued boldness in your teaching, online, in Colorado, and in your travels!
February 13th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
Been three years since my family quit speaking to me, my wife, and my children after we left the hardline NICoC for the “liberals.” Not gonna lie – it hurts. I know you’ve helped me, through your blog and podcasts, to understand much of this division and the error that causes it. All I can offer you in return is heartfelt prayers and encouragement. May love and grace abound and replace the legalism and mean-spiritedness that traps too many.
February 13th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
Sleaze in the name of keeping the coc pure.
You are a better Christian than I, as of this moment I am not in a forgiving mood. I despise self righteous hypocrites.
I am so sorry this happened.
With respect,
Royce
February 13th, 2013 at 8:49 pm
I am so sorry that you are having to go through this…my wife and I have gone through the same with our families because we “drifted away.” My heart breaks for you and all those who suffer the same.
February 13th, 2013 at 9:04 pm
I am so saddened by this! I knew your sister Patti well and on occasions we spoke of your parents and their beliefs, so I’m familiar with their “staunchness” Patrick, I can only say, whilst these people are most certainly in the wrong and did a despicable thing, I think they believe in their heart that they were doing it for the right reasons . (I wouldn’t like to be them if they’ve done it for malice) You speak of them with such grace even although they have done untold damage. I pray that given time to cool down, your father and mother will re-connect with you.
It sickens me to look back through my life and see the families the cofC has caused division in. Take heart!
February 14th, 2013 at 5:16 am
If I could give your father one message, it would be: I love you because your son Patrick loves you.
February 14th, 2013 at 1:24 pm
Patrick:
I am sorry that your father is so staid in his positions at this time that he has removed you from his life. It is sad that his heart did not soften to intolerant faith as your sisters lives were being changed or destroyed. I pray his faith will lead him to recognize his love and acceptance by The Father is the example for how he is to love you. Regardless, I am confident in your belief that you will be reunited in heaven as both his and your transgressions will be covered by God’s amazing Grace.
I am also certain that the divisive person who put this separation between the two of you is extremely blessed that I am not his or her judge. For that matter I recognize I am blessed that I am not required to judge them because I am quite certain I will need more grace than I would measure out in this case.
As for those who blame the Church for divisions “it” has caused, my father often said, and I ask that they consider, “The Church is the perfect organization because it was created by God…. but never forget it is made up of imperfect people.” Please consider the true Church established by Christ is not to blame for the actions of the far less than perfect people who claim ownership instead of graciously accepting membership into of the body of Christ.
Patrick you make some very interesting comments regarding the government and its role in our lives and how we are to respond. I would ask you to consider that Christ NEVER tried to change laws or overthrow the government. Yet his ministry of only three years CHANGED THE WORLD. My point is that obeying just the laws of the land will not secure our salvation. We must rise in this occasion and live to God’s laws in every instance. If we can do this then regardless of what the laws of man say we will truly find the more excellent way Paul speaks of in 1 COR 12:31.
If we would do that there would be no reason to rebel.
There seems to be a prevailing thought that we should rebel against laws that permit others to live as they want but that is not the example Christ gave us. In fact he went to his death for those who had chosen to reject him. Too often we forget that is what we all do anytime we sin. If we would focus on living our lives spreading the good news in love – we would truly change the world. Unfortunately we cant agree to accept others who strive to serve the Lord unless they look, act, think, eat, and breath exactly as we do. We ignore that some are in the milk and some are in the meat and we only serve those who are comfortable living in our mush. We follow two thirds of the great commission and teach, baptize, and reject unless those we baptize believe exactly with our exegesis in ALL things. We can not accept each other in our differences even though we are clearly told that we each have a different part to play in the body of Christ.
I submit if we would show love and be a light in this world as we are called to do instead of just to those in our comfort zones who are just like us, we would change the world and the laws of the land would not be a concern.
Till then I am afraid we are just reaping what we are sowing.
February 15th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
Very sorry brother
February 19th, 2013 at 4:05 am
Patrick, how you must be hurting. Similar to another Son/Father relationship, I know of your father by how you have relayed him. I get the impression from you he is a man fully expecting to give an answer for his words and actions. I suspect he is a man who firmly believes that obedience equals love, and he instilled in you a deeper understanding of obedience than most dads do. (“Are you more afraid of that or me?” Wasn’t “that” a vacuum motor you held while he was fixing/testing it? Ha! That’s a man raising a man.) You learned those lessons well and I am deeply grateful for your obedience in the face of risk.
Tongue in cheek, you have exaggerated that he carries tracts in his pocket while mowing the yard, just in case he has a chance to convert a squirrel. You were speaking of how seriously he takes his calling to share the good news with any he has the chance. This is the same man to whom you entrusted your 13? year old son in the rivers and jungles of South America – that same son who has grown to be a God fearing Marine. Generations of real men. Obedient men.
He walks by faith, and he does the best he knows how as a father. After that, it’s up to you. Hebrews 12. He seems more likely to be concerned with a “well done” from the true Father than from any man, even you. Looks like the nut didn’t fall too far from the tree. Yes, I could have said apple, but I couldn’t resist
Speaking of seeds, none of us really can count how much fruit is born in the kingdom of God because you are honest and transparent with us – at great cost. Thank you.
Along with other readers, I was taken aback by your forgiving spirit. After I had time to cool off, I can guess why you are handling this so obediently… Do you see yourself in whoever did this? He is who you once were, or were on the road to become. “There but for the grace of God go I” is a sure statement we can each say honestly. Well, your obedience whispers loud and clear that God has indeed been gracious to you. 1 Corinthians 8, verses 1 and 11 permeate this blog. For what little it’s worth – well done, brother.
Even if reconciliation does not happen before your weakening parents pass, they will not be alone, for their true Father and yours can even be found alongside His sparrows when their bodies return to the earth. How much more valuable are your parents? Or any soul? He did not spare His own Son to answer such a vital question for each of us. Somehow, it seems in his current understanding of obedience, neither can your father on this stretch of his faith’s walk. He is simply striving to obey. I pray then, without breaking, that he stretch on his faith’s walk to that bend in the path where God’s grace illuminates everything in view.
You honor him, regardless of pain. Then he is to be honored. It hurts to see you live Romans 14 so well. But it harms when we don’t, doesn’t it? Peace and healing to you and your family.
February 19th, 2013 at 9:45 pm
I am sorry for your pain and pray for your family and well as the person who has hurt you and your family. This made me think, have I been divisive in some way at some time to someone? I don’t want to be and hope I haven’t but God forgive me if I have.
Patrick I just want to say, since your visit to Yukon, OK, my life has changed. I am so thankful that I got the opportunity to listen to you a second time (a few years ago in Tulsa). You are truly doing the Lords work and I am thankful for your true walk in faith.
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another just as God has forgiven you in Christ. (Ephesians 4:32) I believe if we live by this scripture we can change the world a little at at time.
February 24th, 2013 at 5:03 am
Hello Patrick. I’m afraid this is an all-too-common story for many of us. I love my parents and have thanked them many times for the base of knowledge I received in the CofC. When they asked me why I had left “the called out” for a Christian Church, I told them that my family was now my responsibility and I had to make the best decisions for them that I could. They did not agree, but had a level of understanding that it was no longer a point to be argued about — only respectfully discussed. Prayers for you, friend. Hope to see you in Tulsa soon.
February 26th, 2013 at 12:53 pm
Dad,
I my self have been done this way by my CoC father and grandparents. Its was hard not to want to do them the same way. What I have learned through listening to you is that’s ok. one day God will show them that love is just love and nothing that is said or done to change that. I have learned to forgive just by the amazing and generous love that you and yours shows everyday to complete strangers. i will pray that who ever done this awful thing that they will try to right what they have wronged, but if they don’t God usually fixes it anyways.
love and prayers to you and yours
February 26th, 2013 at 3:05 pm
I am so sorry Patrick for your loss of fellowship and relationship with your parents. We love you and we love them too..We love them for loving and raising such a bright, loving, faithful, funny and fearless truth seeking son who has The Son in his heart. Our hearts break with yours and our prayers join with yours; that this shall be healed by the Hands of Him who bled and died for us. And I pray that the person who has done this, will one day be as shocked and ashamed of what he has done as we are, and that he has allegedly done it in Gods name. May God have mercy on us all and continue to open our eyes to His Ways, our hearts to His Love, our spirits to His Truth and our minds to His Word. May His Amazing Grace in His Awesome Son and His neverending deeds in support of His children continue to inspire and empower us to do His Will, spread His Word, and love all with the love with which He loved us. And that my brother is what you have been helping us to do with your hard work, insight, humor and perservering intellect. Thank you for yet another wisdom filled(Thank you Lord Jesus “in whom are ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.”) commentary and insight on our reaction, relation and responsibility to human gov’t and rulers, Peace Patrick, we love you brother!!! LOVE NEVER FAILS. GOD IS LOVE.
February 27th, 2013 at 6:12 pm
Patrick,
I feel for you. I also feel a bit bottled up b/c of somewhat similar circumstances–unsure how and when it is ok to start publishing what.
God be with you as you sort this,
Deb
February 28th, 2013 at 3:01 pm
Dad
about the government thing i need some clarification on this. on your sermon about Gideon in your stories and lives sermons you said that it never works for us to give up our defense but here you are saying , if i understand do nothing about it. i would have added this to the other post but i couldn’t get past your sorrow and pain about your parents. if i’m wrong i am sorry i’m not trying to start any fight or debate , i just want to understand.
God bless you and yours
March 4th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
Have read and reread your column and the comments over and over. What happened to your family is numbing. You know, like you hit your fingernail with the hammer and it hurts so bad it gets numb. It is awful and terrible that this has come about and I, like so many others, am praying for you and your family in this situation.
I finally got around to really reading the questioner’s answer and I’m thinking, now I know with your gun background that you would defend Kami to your death no matter who was coming after her. I’m confused.
March 8th, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Patrick,
I hurt for you and am truly sorry of your current relationship with your Dad. As a college student, my co-op work allowed me to share nearly 10 weeks worshipping with your parents back in 1982 in North Carolina. They were always gracious, hospitable, hard-working and loving to me during that time. As I stayed in a motel room 40 miles away from the church building, on Sunday afternoons after worship, your parents fed me, then your Dad took me along with him to prison ministry, then afterwards to a nursing home to offer a worship service for the residents. I would lead songs and he would preach. We rested up an hour before we went back for evening services in Bradenton. I have carried fond memories of them for the last 30 years. Even as a young man, I realized that your Father held a somewhat different doctrinal focus than myself. That has never caused me to cease calling him brother. I believe I still carry life lessons from your parents in my character. I consider those 10 short weeks with them a blessing to my life. Please know I care and will pray on your family’s behalf. God bless.
March 8th, 2013 at 6:13 pm
Patrick,
Let me offer a prayer and a blessing to you and everyone affected by the actions of the person you eloquently protect. I know, and I have witnessed the enormous outpouring of respect and love so many people have for you.
In saying this, I’m wondering if this person has ever heard you speak of your mother and father in person. I doubt it, but, I can bear testimony to the respect you have drawn from me towards your parents and the good they have served in this world. I have never heard an ill word from your mouth in regards to anyone in your family (anyone at all for that matter). You have built a steadfast image of them in my mind, enough to render tears at times.
Your lack of malice towards the saboteur of your relationship with your parents brings to mind the testimony of a woman who had been estranged from her father for many years. Forgiveness was something she had never been able to accomplish, as she had been horrifically mistreated at the hands of her father. Prompted by religion and faith she was asked to find forgiveness in her heart, and she was able to find that through the goodness in her father, there is goodness in everyone, no matter how minute. God asks us to seek it out.
As for your topic of question: Our country has faced many conflicts and the results of our choices lay behind and in front of us, as history repeats it’s self. This is part of our growth in Christ and the lessons we are hard wired to resist because of sin. I have far too many questions to rely on my own interpretation of current events, and feel compelled to let the spirit lead me day to day. At this point all I can do is follow, and pray that my walk is in faith.
Thank you, for sharing your grief.
March 10th, 2013 at 10:17 am
Dear Brother Patrick,
My heart is broken for you and your parents. I too was raised in the Church of Christ and was told I was going to hell when I told my parents that I had met many other christians who seemed more Christlike in their faith that were of other denominations. It has been a long painful journey but they (my parents) are begining to see that Christ is what matters, all that matters. You have done a remarkable job in what I have read/heard of your relationship with your parents. I know just how difficult that can be when doctrines are of the utmost importance. Please know that you have succeeded. I asked God to quide me in writing this to you and this is what He wanted me to convey. Your parents know that you love them. They know that you love God. Even if doctrinal issues do not allow them to associate with you in this life, they are proud of the man you are and proud that you stand up for your beliefs. They love you. They are just not able to tell you at this time. Please do not lose heart or allow this to discourage you in any way. God loves you and He is well pleased with you.
Your Sister in Christ,
Kristy
March 27th, 2013 at 4:59 pm
Patrick, I didn’t know about this until last night when Anita Drinnen told me. I am sorry that I didn’t know, and even more sorry for your hurt. Your response was a foot washing for us all……..a very Christ-like response. When I think of an example of a “disciple of Christ”, YOU are one of the few people that I think of. I love you brother, and I look forward to celebrating with you and your dad in Heaven!
In HIM,
DU