Hell, part five
I worked out “with fear and trembling” my position on hell and shared that material with you in the last four blogs. However, I have also alluded to the fact that I continue to learn and, so, it is certainly possible that I will change my position again. Proceed with prayer and caution.
Some have asked me what kind of punishment might there be in hell. Most of us assume that the mentions of fire, being tied up, falling, gnashing of teeth, etc. are metaphorical or symbolic, not literal. I agree, if for no other reason than that the end of time and place also ends such mundane things such as gravity, teeth, and fire. So what is the punishment?
I really, really need to stress that what follows is entirely conjecture on my part. I have absolutely no Biblical backup on this. This is a thought exercise, not a proclamation of doctrine. Got it? Great!
Yesterday afternoon, I spent a lot of time child proofing our home. My grandson is coming up for a few days and we needed to put drawer locks on the kitchen cabinets. Why? Because children don’t know what can hurt them; they are not born ready to face the dangers out there in the world. We spend a lot of time watching them, protecting them, and telling them things such as “the stove is hot” or “you could fall down the stairs and hurt yourself.” Psychologists don’t agree on what instincts, if any, are present in children at or shortly after their birth but many say that the only fears they have are falling, loud noises, and heat. Babies will shy away from a fire if it projects its heat (but not from hot surfaces if the heat is not obvious) and if you hold a baby and then suddenly lower it, its arms stick out in an instinctive move designed to break its fall. What is hell described as? The embodiment of our earliest, most basic fears: constriction, falling, darkness, and noise (weeping of the damned, etc.).
Quantum physics also helps us here. The whole science of black holes and the discussion of what happens when time stops (or slows to a crawl), and matter is suddenly broken apart into energy makes a lot of us Bible believers look at the descriptions of hell and see total and sudden annihilation in a whole new light. I have come to believe that the lost are annihilated after a time of punishment; a time which varies according to their guilt and God’s judgment (as Jesus put it: many stripes, fewer stripes).
Still… there is compelling evidence that after a period of punishment, souls can (will?) be redeemed. This is what I mean when I refer to myself as a hopeful universalist. I am not really there yet, but I will share next time why I would even consider it. When I bring that up, people ask me what kind of punishment could be meted out on people that would then prepare them for an eternity with God. And here is where the conjecture part of the blog comes into full bloom. There is only one punishment I can imagine that would fit the bill (and I say this knowing that my imagination is a pitiful thing compared to the wisdom and creativity of God).
Think of this: God has had to witness every evil act… and its effect on other human beings, His children. He has spent an eternity inside the fear, the dry mouth, the terror, the helplessness of those attacked by rogue militias or evil government regimes. He has felt the brokenness of the woman whose husband has been unfaithful. He has entered into the heart and soul of the child whose mother is too drunk to feed him. You get the idea. Now…
…what if hell went like this: you are put into a place where you have to feel every hurt you gave to others. You have to see through their eyes, feel through their nerves, and have the full weight of the sins you committed roll through you until you had fully and completely felt ALL of them? You had no Jesus to take them away. You have to bear them… but not forever. Once you drank the full measure of this punishment (and it would take a lot longer for Hitler than it would be for your next door neighbor who is pleasant enough but not a Christian), then redemption could be possible by the grace of Jesus. THEN, every knee would bow. I’ll give you scripture in the next blog but, for now, I want to just do this thought experiment on the type of punishment which might be waiting for those who die outside of Jesus.
Those who “without law” lived as if they were subject to the law, such as those described in Romans, would be spared a great deal of this. Once anyone felt it all, they would be so very grateful for the opportunity to be redeemed. They would be convinced of the just nature of their punishment. They would be formed into a being that understood evil and was so very ready to turn away from it forever. However, if hell is a literal fire and terror filled pit of pain… would someone be happy and ready for heaven after a good roasting? I have trouble imagining that. However, if they were able to see with God’s eyes and feel the pain they caused His children… if they could “know even as we are known”… then they would come into heaven prepared to bow to God because they finally “get it.”
Like I said… just a thought. I’ll give you scriptures that lead me to think I might be a hopeful universalist next time.
May 11th, 2010 at 8:40 am
I have struggled with this in the past, struggle with it now, and will likely struggle in the future. My heart wants this or something like it to happen. Is that wishful thinking? I don’t know. But if I, as nasty, mean, and wicked as I am, can want this to be true, how much more can a loving God want this to be true? I know, God is just as well as loving, and the universe he made operates logically and consistently, but I think you can see where I’m going with this.
One thing I’m sure of–these questions aren’t as cut and dried as we were always taught. You know what I mean–everyone on this side of the line is going to roast forever, while all of us (it’s always us) will get the good stuff.
I thank you for diving headlong into this question, Patrick. It is very important.
May 11th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Patrick, I have really enjoyed reading these posts and have learned things I certainly had not considered before. I’m still studying.
I like the new look too and I agree, Brad and the crew at Theobloggers are great!
I really appreciate you and your gifts.
May 11th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Like the new look!! I tried (to no avail) to leave a comment yesterday. I was asked to do the anti-spam word, but it never game me an anti-spam word! Technology . . . sigh.
Several years ago, having heard Edward Fudge lecture on this subject (hell, not anti-spam words), I decided though I was not sure exactly what was in store for the lost, whatever I had believed until then was grounded far more in Greek thought than Biblical thought.
Whatever your final conclusion, your thoughts are very insightful. Thanks for sharing them with with us. Looking forward to the next installment.
May 12th, 2010 at 9:21 am
I had an experience similar to Greg’s over at your “Hidden History” site just now. Except I got the anti-spam word and then an Error message when I tried to submit it.
I join the others in thanking you for your insights on this hot-button topic. I’ve read some of Edward Fudge on the subject on the internet, as well as Al Maxey. What I thought was cut & dried is now not so certain – but some sort of conditional mortality seems to be taught in the Scripture when you take a serious look at the question without trying to defend a previous conclusion.
Thank you, Jerry. I’ll report the bug. We’ve found quite a few! As for your comment, I deeply appreciate it. I have long respected you and your service to the kingdom. I am far less certain about many things now, but my faith has grown because of it. I no longer can trust my wisdom and knowledge but have to lean on the One who knows.
Again, thanks.
Jerry
May 13th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Patrick, reading this reminded me of the movie _The Green Mile_. If you haven’t seen it, Michael Clarke Duncan’s character, John Coffey, is a miraculous healer, but part of his gift is the curse of seeing and feeling the sin and hurt of others. He describes it like this “I’m tired of all the pain I feel and hear in the world everyday. There’s too much of it. It’s like pieces of glass in my head all the time.” Sounds a lot what you describe as possible punishment in hell. This series has definitely got me re-thinking what I thought I knew about hell. Thank you very much for your research and opinion. Steve <
May 24th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Patrick -
I have read and re-read this post, thinking it is my all time favorite and most important post you’ve written in your 5 1/2 years of blogging (and I’ve been with you from the very BEGINNING! – Yay!)
Tom is a Christian, but his faith is weak. It has strengthened considerably the past few years and this post gives me much hope for him . . . as well as his remaining daughter and her children. Also, I think of other members of my own family, long gone.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!
Dee
June 2nd, 2010 at 10:44 am
I didn’t get the redirect for a while, so I am catching up on some of the backlogs. As such, I am not sure this will even get to you, since the post is about a month old. Here I go anyway though. Here are a couple questions about your view for punishment:
1) It seems that you are assuming the evil of sin is the harm we cause other people. However, looking back as far as Joseph, he acknowledged to Pottepher’s wife that the adultery she suggested would be first and foremost a sin against God. So would that mean those in hell would have to experience sin from God’s perspective? Something about hell meaning we are in God’s place strikes me as not right.
2) There are those who engage willingly in sin where perhaps nobody is grieved (premarital sex, drunkenness in your own home, internal hatred, pride, etc) how would those be observed in this view?
3) What about masochists who would enjoy such an experience?
Last – (not a question) it seems that there is nothing inconsistent about an eternal punishment where some receive more punishment than others. Imagine an eternity where one person receives a lashing every thousand years, and another every minute. Wouldn’t this fit the description?
Just a couple of thinking points.
June 17th, 2010 at 12:48 am
Ok. First of all great series and thank you for posting! Secondly, wow, Chad- I was thinking the exact same thing. About the sins that don’t necessarily hurt others. Can we get your thoughts on this Mr. Mead?
September 9th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Sure hope your view of hell is correct because i do not like the traditional view at all.
October 5th, 2012 at 1:59 am
Wow, you think deep, Brother M.
Thanks for this series of articles.